LAKERS LAKERS Thread

Discussion in 'Los Angeles DODGERS' started by rube, Dec 16, 2015.

  1. Chiefdodgerslkrs24

    Chiefdodgerslkrs24 Among the Pantheon

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    That's stupid, don't let good players get away.
     
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  2. Fall Winslow

    Fall Winslow McRib

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    That's basic team construction under salary cap guidelines.
    If it's a player that you don't want to lock into for big money/multiple years, don't.
    Find a better way of spending that money.
     
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  3. Fall Winslow

    Fall Winslow McRib

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    @CapnTreee grabbing those binoculars

    [​IMG]
     
  4. rube

    rube DSP Legend Staff Member Administrator

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    You do it all the time if it means catching a bigger fish.
    Bye Bye Vlade Divac, Hello Shaq Attack!
     
  5. irish

    irish DSP Staff Member Administrator

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    um, vlade got us kobe
     
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  6. Fall Winslow

    Fall Winslow McRib

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    If Magic doesn't want to pay Randle, taking that into account, moving him before he becomes an expensive asset has it's advantages. Unless one thinks they'd trade their #2 overall pick this year..they have 1 draft pick that they can attach to Mozgov or Deng, the 28th overall draft pick. So if they're valuing their cap flexibility and don't want to use the stretch provision/tying some space down there, the best shot they have at moving whoever's left out of Mozgov and Deng is to attach them to the young asset(s) that they already have. So basically, you get Deng out by attaching him to Russell/Randle in a deal that also nets you an all-star forward in George..then you get Mozgov out by attaching him to the 28th overall draft pick on draft night, sending him to some team like the Nets.

    With that, you've also gotten rid of two young players that have earmarked paydays coming when you don't really see either of them as a part of your future. Done and done x 2, cap space cleared with more coming by renouncing Black/Brewer the following summer. At that point they'd have only George/Ingram/Zubac/Lonzo?/Nance/Clarkson under contract, so plenty of cap flexibility..assuming they don't give anybody a multi-year deal this summer, which Magic said they aren't likely to do.

    So yeah, there are also advantages in getting George now instead of waiting..call it mini-mop up duty. Most rebuilds go through it and for some it's worse. For LAL it could mean adding George through trade while helping open up around 50M in cap space by the summer of 2018 to go after one or two of Cousins/Westbrook/Avery Bradley in FA and really make a jump in the western conference. And one of the great things about the FA class of 2018 is that the league's salary cap won't be making a huge jump. So it'll be LAL out there with Paul George + a young/talented crew and about 50M in cap space and not a whole lot of competition on the market because others will just be capped out. Shit would set up pretty nicely.

    And then of course they've locked in their 1st round pick in 2019 by grabbing the Top 3 pick this year, so that'll be another young talent to add to that group. All in all, this is probably the time to strike considering the cap picture..and what a coincidence that Magic takes over right at this point, so he gets the credit. But to be fair, who knows what kind of back-room deal Magic pulled to land LAL this #2 pick, so..
     
  7. rube

    rube DSP Legend Staff Member Administrator

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    Follow the bouncing ball Irish.
     
  8. irish

    irish DSP Staff Member Administrator

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    Elden Campbell does not like this.
     
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  9. Chiefdodgerslkrs24

    Chiefdodgerslkrs24 Among the Pantheon

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    If they want to get PG13 this off season, anyone except Russell, Ingram, Zubac and the pick is fair game. My Lonzo Ball fantasy has D'lo playing next to him in the backcourt, it also has us signing Boogie and George together next off-season
     
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  10. Fall Winslow

    Fall Winslow McRib

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    That's a fantasy without enough defense being played at the starting guard spots, but to each his own
    If Russell could play any defense whatsoever it probably wouldn't be out there that he's available right now
    My Lonzo fantasy has us targeting this particular former Pelinka client/quiet killer in FA after next season, dude is a fearless 2-way talent in his prime..

     
  11. Fall Winslow

    Fall Winslow McRib

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    And then of course George or Ingram could also play the guard spot next to Lonzo
    All of these guys..George, Ingram, Bradley..they're all 2-way talents
    Defense does matter..somebody has to defend Klay Thomspon, Steph Curry, and Durant..or are we just waiting until the Warriors' run is over?
    Also, how are you getting Cousins and George next off-season with Deng or Mozgov still on board?
    LAL would need every penny to afford those 2 in FA and you can only attach one of Deng or Mozgov to the 28th overall draft pick..
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2017
  12. rube

    rube DSP Legend Staff Member Administrator

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    The idea is that Russell becomes an offensive threat.
    If he does not have to worry about PG duties and he can focus his talents on scoring he may turn out to be a pretty good player.
     
  13. Fall Winslow

    Fall Winslow McRib

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    Lol The funky fade away, that was the whole vid for me



    Don't sleep on this guy for #2..

     
    Last edited: May 22, 2017
  14. Based God

    Based God DSP Legend

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    It seems as if you agree he will need (his stroke requires) space to be an effective shooter --which I was mostly commenting on
    But I think you're overly optimistic in your analysis believing he will have the same space at the NBA level

    In terms of generating space
    1) Early offense and transition account for less than half of the offensive plays. Lonzo has very little experience in PnR and utilizing ball screens/handoffs relative to others at his position. I'm not saying he cant excel at this but the projection is definitely more cloudy.
    2) He did not attack switches well. Often times opposing teams would switch on him and Lonzo would simply resort to a step back shot. He didnt show a great first step or off the dribble moves to get the big away off him. Now considering that the NBA has bigs with way more mobility and athleticism its questionable to think he can get quality shots there when he struggled with this in college.

    Midrange
    - Agreed that this part of the game is diminishing as these are typically low % shots. Ball may have avoided these deliberately which shows a good understanding of the game. But also these shots might be the only thing open especially if we dont have 4 or even 5 shooters who can space the floor at a given time (Reason why GS excels). So essentially they can try to move Lonzo off the line by fighting over the screen and letting the big hang back. In these situations Lonzo definitely has to prove hes capable of letting the defender stay on his back and capable of hitting the elbow jumper. DLo takes a few of these per game fwiw. I'm optimistic he can excel at this but he essentially never did this at UCLA so theres bound to be a bit of a learning curve.

    Perfecting his shot
    Brandon Ingram and Dlo both also shot 41% from 3 in college. Both also with an advantage in athleticism for the most part relative to their position.
    Obviously he has to perfect the kinetic chain to his shot. From footwork to stroke. But once again he needs to be getting good looks to have a decently high %. He has incredible range for sure and already has great footwork so Im optimistic about this as well.

    So essentially im just cautious about the things Lonzo has limited experience with..and they arent flaws that he cant overcome.
    I believe Luke is gonna continue to emulate the GSW offense so that will probably include more off ball screens and less on ball screens..
    So to play to Lonzos strengths I think itd be interesting to let him play as the primary ball handler in transition and as the SG in half court sets.
    Basically this covers up Lonzos inexperience in the PnR game for the time being and allows him to utilize off ball screens to get into his shot.

    But at the end of the day I think he has potential to be a great player and shooter. Not necessarily disagreeing with the optimism, just adding context tbh
     
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  15. Fall Winslow

    Fall Winslow McRib

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    I agree to a point, as in most players need space to be effective shooters. I just don't think he'll need more or much more than usual because of his mode of attack. There's just all kinds of space and opportunity outside the 3pt line and he already has impressive range that can be honed.


    He's a pass 1st guy, though, not a guy that's coming down the court gunning or using a ton of possessions to find looks for himself, so the number of possessions in which he chooses to attack in that way isn't really an issue. Maybe I threw you off by comparing his 3pt shot to Curry's, but I was just comparing their accuracy in college, not their overall offensive approach. Lonzo's not a volume gunner in that way..he has the potential to eventually become that with his range/feel for the game, but of course he's more of a pass 1st/orchestrator to this point. When I say early offense/transition PnR I'm just talking about Lonzo picking his spots within his style of play, which he already does pretty well. If we're talking strictly from a shooting standpoint..a simple early O screen should free him up for 3pt looks when he feels it's time for that, the roll/pop by his teammate or switch by the defender often times won't matter because the ball should be going up and his release is a fairly quick one. For him, a 3pt shot without a hand in his face is a good shot. But he does have the step back, which with work, could prove effective enough because of his size advantage at the position. His improvement concerning strength and ball handling should make a big difference.

    He lacks some experience in the PnR, however, the NBA setting is more conducive to the PnR because the threats around him will be more talented than those around him at the NCAA level. They'll also more than likely stick him in the middle of the floor more often since spacing is just so much better in the league in comparison to college ball. When watching Lonzo I never got the feeling that he couldn't attack a big on a switch or didn't have the ability..it more so felt like he didn't like his options or chances if he were to drive and didn't always have 100% confidence in himself or his teammates as far as getting off a high % shot is concerned. He definitely has to get stronger and embrace the the fact that he'll have to take a hit or two at times. But also, natural spacing should come into play in the league, as the 8th and 9th guys on bad teams in the NBA, like say a Nance and/or Tarik Black, will consistently punish a defense around the basket and make momentum changing/point blank plays. The majority of NBA guys have to be honored in some fashion. Even a Clarkson can light you up for 5-6 three's on a given night, or young " never was " types like Ennis earn the spacing needed to operate in the PnR and produce because of the pros around them. All to say that, again, running the PnR at the NBA level should be more wide open. Ingram said Magic gave him a few pointers in running the PnR and how to finish strong/effectively in the paint and then he was off and running in that aspect. Hopefully Lonzo would take those pointers from Magic as well, but again, he also needs to hit that weight room and get ready for some hits.



    He could also perfect the art of drawing fouls in some of those situations ala Harden, but as said above he'll probably have to get stronger before that'd be a go-to. However, there are ways to break down that defensive approach. One of the greatest shooters of all time ( Steve Nash) regularly turned down those mid-range opportunities, choosing to instead drive and keep his dribble alive while probing the defense for better looks and opportunities for his teammates. The latter of which I'd want to see from Lonzo because he is that pass 1st PG hunting high % shots. If he does land with LAL and they add the guys we think they will, he'll have his share of options/athletic cutters/shooters/big men to choose from in situations where he can probe and make the defense scramble, so they should work on that tirelessly.



    Yeah, a big difference in range between DLo/Ingram and Lonzo, as Lonzo's flirted with the Curry/30ft area and drained them, while I've really only seen DLo move out to about 26 feet on rare occasions. And then in college Ingram was mainly parking at the line and the corner for 3 balls. But again, that's another reason why spacing doesn't really bother me much..because where Lonzo's capable of hurting you from, if you send defenders way out there the whole defense is bound to break down because he's just going around you/penetrating at that point. 26-27 feet out is normally too far out to truly contest a shot. One of the reasons why there's just no defending Curry when he's on..nobody's ready for a 30 footer.

    I agree with that usage, either way LAL is going to have decent to above average 2nd/3rd options as ball handlers that'll allow Lonzo to move off the ball. I'd be less optimistic about his potential if it were the 90's, but this league is softer and far more wide open thanks to the rules. Maybe I seem like Oscar Robertson, " hating on today's game " there, but it is what it is. Hopefully Lonzo exudes the confidence we're accustomed to seeing and can take advantage because it's not just LaVar talking his normal shit when he says " Lonzo should be better in the NBA "..the setting is there for him to flourish. With a little tutelage from Magic, and work in the weight room, he could take it to the limit.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2017
  16. Fall Winslow

    Fall Winslow McRib

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    Come to think of it I'd love to see Lonzo develop the little 1-leg runner that Nash used to pull out on occasions, just once or twice a game would suffice.
    He does have that funky little 1 leg fade away in his bag already

     
  17. spanky006

    spanky006 DSP Legend

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  18. Fall Winslow

    Fall Winslow McRib

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  19. CapnTreee

    CapnTreee Guest

    No one really disputing this anymore.
    I don't mind Lavar's support for his kids but telling Nike that you deserve a $1B contract before the kid ever gets drafted or takes a single NBA shot proves he's an idiot.

    so now he's an idiot with a line of shoes

    distributed absolutely nowhere
    Now that is something Nike can make happen
     
  20. TAFNAC

    TAFNAC Cossack Staff Member Administrator

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    I'm not sure he's an idiot. He's crazy, maybe crazy like a fox.
     
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