MINOR LEAGUE/PROSPECTS Thread

Discussion in 'Los Angeles DODGERS' started by Shaw, Nov 15, 2011.

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  1. doyerfan

    doyerfan MODERATOR Staff Member Moderator

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    Cool
     
    doyerfan, Nov 16, 2011
    #21
  2. THINKBLUE

    THINKBLUE DSP Gigolo

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    Ned? Is that you?
     
    THINKBLUE, Nov 16, 2011
    #22
  3. THINKBLUE

    THINKBLUE DSP Gigolo

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    I will never support close to 9 million for a shitty player. He doesn't get on base, he'll hit .240 something, he'll OPS+ 70, he doesn't run....

    All he does is play D, which Sellers can do for free.

    Loney could be the only Dodger infielder to hit above .250 next season.
     
    THINKBLUE, Nov 16, 2011
    #23
  4. bestlakersfan

    bestlakersfan DSP Legend

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    I'd have really liked Aaron Hill or Kelly Johnson
     
    bestlakersfan, Nov 16, 2011
    #24
  5. bestlakersfan

    bestlakersfan DSP Legend

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    LIKE!
     
    bestlakersfan, Nov 16, 2011
    #25
  6. doyerfan

    doyerfan MODERATOR Staff Member Moderator

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    So you're saying you'd rather have Sellers who will hit as good as Juan Castro play 2B rather than spend money on a guy who will OPS better than Carroll next year? it's either 9 million on Ellis, or 500K on a shitty player. I don't get why its a bad deal, when option B is pathetic

    It's no coincidence Ellis has been a major league starter for a good time now and Sellers is 25+ and with his third organization and has yet to have a starting gig
     
    doyerfan, Nov 16, 2011
    #26
  7. doyerfan

    doyerfan MODERATOR Staff Member Moderator

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    im not saying Ellis is a savior, big bat we need. But what I'm saying is to be mad about that signing is weird, given that its one of the only good signings Ned has had, ever.

    Johnson/Hill can be good and all, but are probabl more expensive, not to mention that take them away from Chase/Toronto and you see there splits are nasty away from there.

    Ned has fucked up in other areas a lot more, but this Ellis signing is probably as good as it can get for 2B for the Dodgers
     
    doyerfan, Nov 16, 2011
    #27
  8. THINKBLUE

    THINKBLUE DSP Gigolo

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    I get where you're coming from. But with Ned's history, this just comes off as another overpayment for a shitty player.
     
    THINKBLUE, Nov 16, 2011
    #28
  9. VRP

    VRP DSP Legend

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    He's OPS+'ed below 70 once in his entire career. I get you don't like the signing, but you're over-exaggerating now.
     
    VRP, Nov 16, 2011
    #29
  10. THINKBLUE

    THINKBLUE DSP Gigolo

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    And you over exaggerate to signing an MVP to a long term deal.

    It's going to be painful looking at our infield try to hit.
     
    THINKBLUE, Nov 16, 2011
    #30
  11. VRP

    VRP DSP Legend

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    Fine, we're both over-exaggerating!!
     
    VRP, Nov 16, 2011
    #31
  12. bestlakersfan

    bestlakersfan DSP Legend

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    Caroll would've been who I signed, especially considering he got less money. Here are the OPS+ of Carroll vs. Ellis the past 5 years

    2011: 98 JC / 68 ME
    2010: 100 JC / 103 ME
    2009: 89 JC / 85 ME
    2008: 89 JC / 88 ME
    2007: 57 JC / 109 ME

    Take 2011 out for ME and 2007 for JC and their OPS+ averages are:
    JC - 94
    ME - 96.25

    Close to the same player, but I'd take JC becuase he busts his ass day in and day out and is now familiar with NL pitching.

    I agree with TB, to a point, about Sellers. My gripe is that MEllis is not worth the additional $4M/year for what he brings in OVER Sellers. Not a bad signing by any means, but not a great one either.
     
    bestlakersfan, Nov 16, 2011
    #32
  13. VRP

    VRP DSP Legend

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    According to WAR, a win is worth 5 million dollars. Ellis is a 1.5-2 win 2B. Sellers is <1. I think it's definitely enough of an upgrade. Not to mention with the Carroll comparison, Ellis' GG defense over Carroll's slightly below average defense makes it a lot less close.
     
    VRP, Nov 16, 2011
    #33
  14. bestlakersfan

    bestlakersfan DSP Legend

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    You think there is enough sample size to properly evaluate Sellers as a <1 WAR?
     
    bestlakersfan, Nov 16, 2011
    #34
  15. VRP

    VRP DSP Legend

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    I think he's terrible, yeah. There's a reason he as a minor league free agent.
     
    VRP, Nov 16, 2011
    #35
  16. bestlakersfan

    bestlakersfan DSP Legend

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    Ok, just asking. I think he can be a solid player, above average D, below average O.
     
    bestlakersfan, Nov 16, 2011
    #36
  17. VRP

    VRP DSP Legend

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    He's a solid defender, just don't think he has an MLB bat
     
    VRP, Nov 16, 2011
    #37
  18. dodgers

    dodgers DSP Legend

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    Mark Ellis is a better player than Aaron Hill, and Johnson isn't worth surrendering a pick for.
     
    dodgers, Nov 17, 2011
    #38
  19. Based God

    Based God DSP Legend

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    Sellers was worth .8 wins last year in 36 games. Of course most of that was attributed to his defense, but he also had a BABIP of .235.
    Not sure when ZiPS comes out, but I'm sure it would project better numbers offensively for Sellers. You can take Bill James' projection fwiw but he had Sellers at .235/.305/.361 and Ellis at .255/.314/.369. I don't think there would have been much difference between the two in terms of offense/defense to justify paying Ellis 4.5 million a year as opposed to just starting Sellers for 400k and then using the extra 4 million for something useful.
     
    Based God, Nov 17, 2011
    #39
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  20. bestlakersfan

    bestlakersfan DSP Legend

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    Like and 100% agree.
     
    bestlakersfan, Nov 17, 2011
    #40
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