Well pretty much no one nowadays is performing at super human levels. In the GT, I highly doubt anyone will stand by a statement (even their own) that the team doesn't care. You actually mean what you're saying. Plus, we've had the debate before about if PEDs are good or not or that science has proven that success is mostly built around talent, etc. But it's banned for a reason. It's still a rule, it's cheating if you break it. Kemp and Andre were not on steroids. Kemp had a serious shoulder injury that has been proven to take many months to fully recover from (unless all those players were on steroids as well), and Ethier's hands are slower because he's rapidly moving his hands back and forth in his stance. I don't think I've ever seen him move his hands back and forth that much at the plate. It's causing him to not catch up with some of these hittable pitches. I love you Ford, but I don't think the percentage of cheaters is as high as you think. At least not with steroids. You may have a point with HGH and non-testable supplements but not so much with steroids IMO. Baseball has cracked down on that shit.
Well I'm not saying it's steriods and not other things like HGH. Roids is just easier to type. I'm usually saying P.E.D.s or doping when I mean buisiness. I think you're completely wrong in assuming less, not more or on them. I believe 100% that Kemp, Ethier, AGon, & Hanely were using some form of illegal P.E.D. at some point prior to this season. Whatever it is players take is not as obvious in performance as the good old roid era stuff, that's obvious...but there's still stuff going on as this Biogenics thing has proven once again. Players are using and still passing multiple drug tests. Why would this 1 clinic be the only one in baseball? There is obviously more than just biogenics.
The Biogenesis investigation doesn't prove if someone was taking PEDs. It sure as hell alludes to that, but the players involved would be guilty by association. There could be proof that player x bought PEDs, but that said player might not have consumed them. I know, why would a player buy PEDs to not consume them, I'm just saying that this investigation doesn't 100% prove that these players were on them. There's strong indications they were, but they would in theory, again, be guilty of association.
Well I've tried to defend the players against the accusations of "quiting" and "not caring" and have plenty of people argue to leave me no choice but to believe that they mean what they say. So I have no idea what you are talking about people not standing by what they say. You are wrong there, I know because I've argued with them over it. So, the only way to actually have proof is Braun taking the drugs on camera for all of us to see, Pop on a drug test(which he did and still got out of it),or infront of Selig himself and even then you can make the argument that Selig lied. In reality, there's very little chance anything is 100% proof. I mean, this is a neverending debate if you're not going to apply common sense. Common sense says Player buys illegal P.E.D.s=player uses P.E.D.s. We have no more to discuss on the issue if the debate turns to you claiming ARod, Braun and Cabrerra and companie's innocense really.
I really don't know what I'm rambling about. I just don't think every player that declines based on various reasons, was on PEDs.
Not saying they're innocent. Just saying the investigation doesn't 100% prove anyone was on PEDs unless someone saw or there was a test, etc. That's a fact. No player should be associated with PEDs. Whether it is buying them or using them. This is where MLB needs to define what cheating is. Is cheating just consuming them, or being associated with them as well?
I never made that claim either. Let me make it clear because I feel some here are just making way to broad of statements for my taste. 1)Not all good or great players are on P.E.D.s Some players that are using are barely good enough to hang on to a job(S.D.'s -Everth Cabrara, Grandahl). Some are superstars because they use(ARod, Braun). 2)Not every player that declines was on P.E.D.s. Other factors such as age or injury are very normal and common. I try to take that into consideration in every case. for example, Kemp and Ethier are supposed to be in their prime...yet they are declining rapidly. I have defended Kemp because of the shoulder a gazzilion times. Still other factors make me think it could be both. 3)Not every player that is taking P.E.D.s are taking steriods. There are many forms of P.E.D.s, many of them I've never heard of. HGH is very common as well as adderall and other amphetamines. I hope I've made myself clear in those 3 statements. I'm getting a bit irritated with people saying I said this or that innaccurately. If anyone wants to debate/discuss stuff with me, I welcome that, one of us might learn something. I admit I don't know everything...but we get nowhere when I'm practically being miss quoted. And I'll go ahead and extend the obligatory "I love you too's" out there to you guys. I'm not mad or anything. I understand some will agree and most will disagree. I think a guy my age has seen the changes in the players more than most on these boards. Most of you grew up in the roid era. I've seen it before/during/after. The doping is still there, but it is not what it was both in effectiveness and frequency.
Obviously they've stated buying them and possesing them are illegal and the player will be suspended.
I'm curious to hear your reasoning as to why you think Andre, Kemp, HanRam, and Agon are former PED users.
I'd like to add that completely legal supplements are getting so advanced that it is completely possible to get a body like Puig's without PED's. One of my better friends looks likes Mike Trout's twin not only in facial features but muscle tone and everything and he has never taken PED's. The dude just puts in the work. The things he takes is casein protein at night, whey protein in the morning, and uses a pre workout supplement which I believe is Cellular C4 Extreme. And there is a ton more legal shit that you could take but those are the only things he does besides follow a certain diet and workout.
Then I agree that they should be suspended for association. MLB makes the rules. Kemp's poor performance is mostly based on injury and stupid in game decisions. Ethier's seems more mechanical. Like I said, take a look at his hands when he's at the plate tonight. Ethier never was a huge power guy anyways, but this has really been the only year he hasn't been consistent. There's still time as well.
AGon hitting 30-40 HRs on the Padres in that giant ballpark. He was only hitting around .280 during his big power years which kind of defeats my argument, I honestly thought he was a .320 hitter back then until looking it up right now. He didn't really raise his average until BOS and his HRs actually declined. A former player that was never injured and the last few years has become a bit injury prone. I can go either way with him. I could be wrong about him and like Kemp, his shoulder issue could be the cause. He also seems to be a guy that can't stay fit as he looks like he might not be the best guy at watching his diet further pointing to a natural decline. So I'm reaching on him and I probably won't accuse him anymore. He is 31 now making him the older guy in the bunch. So I'll retract my accusations on him if I can. Kemp...I'm not sure on him but the sudden hamstrings issues after setting records for being an iron man and never being hurt, his ridiculous power to RF, his combination of speed and power that have suddenly disappeared all make me suspicious. I'm kind of on the fence about him and can give him the benefit of the doubt. I've actually argued that he never was on them with people in real life I know...but I wouldn't be suprised if he was. I'll just leave him alone. Kemp did get smaller(for the 2012 season and seemed to get even better, another reason I'm not convinced about him. I still lean towards the shoulder injury from running into the wall. So I'll retract my accusations on him if I can. HanRam with his ridiculous stats as a very young player and after recieving a large contract turned into an underachieving injury prone player. Joint and muscle injuries are known to happen to former P.E.D. users. He's not an old man yet. Ethier suddenly has also become injury prone and the fact he is way smaller (He looks like a skinny guy now)this season and has shown no power at all and a loss of batspeed, again after getting paid. He really doesn't look or play like he did as little as a year ago, not really even close. All these guys got paid and got worse and more injury prone and none of them are at the age where a player should just fall apart. I'd say that is about 34-35. Their declines are way earlier than that. The bottom line is a lot of players use someting and I'm not going to pretend Dodgers don't...many have proven to be. so sometimes I'm going to lump the Dodgers in just based on baseball as a whole. I'm not 100% convinced about AGon and Kemp, and the more I second guess myself, I can't say they were using. Hanely and Ethier...yeah. They are not unique by any means, this is a common thing in baseball. It's all over the place.
Ethier...He's always had the same arm/hand/bat movement as he waits for the pitch. His swing is still balanced, weight transfer is the same, etc. His swing (as it goes through the zone) is significantly slower. I think Kemp is clean, but Andre...I really think he was an HGH guy.
Upon intense review, I have decided that you may retract your accusations this time but don't let it happen again. Who knows if I will be this nice next time.
