I think that 10% is more than enough...straight across the board. If the government can't provide for national defense and essential services by stealing 10% of every dollar made, than something is wrong. the US GDP is something like 17 trillion. If the government cant do its job with a 1.7 trillion dollar budget, they're doing it wrong. If you want to play nice with lower earners, you could set the standard deduction at the minimum wage value (although I think minimum wage is stupid too). That way, the lowest earners don't pay any taxes. But here's a wrinkle: if you don't pay taxes, you don't get to vote. That way people can't vote policies with other people's money. Any voting decision would also impact you. You have to have skin in the game to have a voice.
the issue is the massive waste and theft that takes place at all levels of government and programs 10% should be more than adequate in a sane world i agree
Poor people can't vote wtf? How bout everyone be forced to take the same citizenship test immigrants have to take. u pass u vote
It's an alternative to not paying taxes for low earners. I'd prefer everyone pays at 10%, but if you want to give low earners a break from taxes then you don't get to have a vote in what's done with the taxes. Pay to play I think a knowledge test for voting is good too. Most natural born citizens would fail the shit out of it. Most immigrants would pass.
Yeah, but those 10% would be informed and make an intelligent decision. I'm not a big fan of voting at all. Don't like people being able to control other peoples lives. But if we have to do it, at least make the people voting informed.
no voting would result in a plutocracy huge tax breaks for the rich middle class and the poor be damned
All those things happen because government has too much power and creates tax situations and regulations that cause those problems Less taxes, flat tax, no tax breaks possible. Most of that goes away.
That's been done and No voting then what other rights should the poor not have. They already done tried this many times craig. It never turns out well. Socrates hated democracy and wanted an education and morality test for voting. Same for the non philosophes philosophers of the french revolution.
Yeah, Plato hated it too. They recognized that direct democracy was and always will be tyranny of the majority. The United States was never meant to be a democracy either, it was created as a republic. For better or worse, we're moving toward something closer to direct democracy--did you see how many propositions were on the ballot this time? I'm not saying the poor shouldn't have a vote--I think I've said that twice now. I'd prefer everyone pays the same tax and everyone gets a vote. I'm trying to think of ways to make it harder for one group to use tax policy to exploit another group.
...and smoked the hemlock. BTW, a plutocracy is a society run by Mickey Mouse's dog...which is almost the same thing we have now, right?
Income tax is just one type of tax. I assume that is what is being discussed in this tax conversation.
That's what I was talking about yes. There used to be a time there wasn't even a federal one. ...but all taxation is theft
Its theft by way of force. Tax are Attacks. One group using another group to attack the other via the force of the foederati/feudal/federated/federal barbarian tribes/states when they want to seem 'civil'. Barbarians stopped coming in on long boats with swords and axes, now they come in lincoln towncars with tolls and taxes. In no way are the 'poor' the ones who are doing the raping and pillaging man. They arent the ones using tax policy to to exploit another group. If they get a piece of entrails off the butchers table every now and again its nowhere near the same. The poor are who is getting taxed the most. Just in was that dont show up on the legit ledger. They have red ink for that type of book. The Goths have been at their dark game for long before anyone knew what a Viking or a Mongol was. From Asia to India to Africa then back to their homeland north of Persia and finally to where they got famous in modern time Europe.
You know what Plato said about Socrates? Everything. Socrates was all about power, but in a safe way. That is what his name means. That power should only be used if it first does no harm to the all important whole. Like the physicians old oath before he became a doctore/teacher of drug sorcery. And the whole must first take into consideration the weak/poor who are usually the ones most opposed to what is best for them due to their ignorance. So the powerful must be conservative in their approach in order to not too greatly offend the self respect of the poor and uneducated while at the same time always have their best interest at heart. Because they are the legs of the society. And if you work out your legs the rest of the body will be strong too. But if you just work out your arms and chest you will still fall easily in a battle. Socrates name is the combination of words that in essence mean power/god and safe/salvation. And he died for the greeks so they could understand the sins of their democracy.
Your middle paragraph is astute and well stated, I must say. Dissecting it however, and the elements within it, seems to be the obviously unsolvable problems of running a democratic ( ideally) society like ours...seemingly impossible, given the parameters of our political system. And the abilites, or lack of them, of those we elect to it. Takes some balls, too.
Loopholes for the rich don't come in the form of personal deductions and exemptions, they come in the form of tax on passive income and businesses. As far as I can tell, Trump's plan addresses neither, in fact it removes estate taxes that only affect the very very wealthy. The current capital gains tax is at a flat 15%, which for most extremely wealthy people constitutes the majority of their income. Most people who make over $1 million a year aren't making it as an earned wage - which is all that is being addressed in Trump's plan. Until the capital gains income tax is addressed, a discussion on what is fair earned income tax is somewhat moot. The standard deduction increases under Trump's plan, which for many in the middle income area will negate the benefits of itemized deductions. Primarily that lost benefit will be the loss of home interest deductions (which is stupid to begin with, but still it's a lost deduction that will disproportionately affect the middle class), and with that loss we will see a dip in home values, especially for sub $1 million homes. Other deductions are lost in his plan, which is why the article you linked showed how many middle income people will actually see a tax increase, and pairing that with a loss in their home value should be great.