OFF-TOPIC Thread

I really don't want to get involved in all this political talk...especially since, for me, politics is like talking religion. No matter how much you try to convince the other side, it just ends up making that person more entrenched in his/her beliefs. There is no win-win, just lose-lose.

But with respect to minimum wage, there are two strands that I think are important from my point of view. Society has decided which type of work deserves to be rewarded highly and what work does not. But that doesn't make it the right allocation. For some, being an I-banker, who can make millions if not tens of millions a year, is more valued....and those who stand to profit greatest from their services.....namely those who also have great sums of money.....reward those services immensely.

But in terms of overall value to society, is what an I-banker does more valuable than what a school teacher does, or someone who picks up your trash, or the sanitation worker that makes sure the sewers are working properly? One can argue that these workers benefit a wider and larger portion of society and also serve a critcal function (rather than just moving capital around).

I remember when banking was a boring job.....just calculating amortized cash flows and present value of future cash flows...and bankers were not paid anywhere near what they do now.

I guess that's the first question....is what society allocates necessarily the right allocation?

The second thing for me is that question of what does a modern and rich society, a democracy, owe its citizens as a whole? Even if burger flipping may not be highly valued from a societal or practical level, does a society like the US at least owe that person the ability to earn enough to rent an apartment, pay utilities, put food on the table, make sure they have resources when they get sick, and have at least something left over for the small stuff (clothes, shoes, a present or two for the kids) and a safe school to go to?

For me, the answer is yes. Not everyone had the chance, opportunity and or luck (and believe me, luck plays a huge part in your lot in life) to be able to get out of the burger flipping level of employment. As you know, as you move up the chain, the less openings there are....so not everyone can partake. But if you decide to work, then you should be given that fair chance at life and real living.

I'm kinda looking at this from personal experience, and although things a hugely better for me and my family now, my parents had it really tough....and some of these services and benefits really got us through....they were the chance we got. The rest was hard work, but for a family of 9, sometimes you need a little help.

Otherwise, I think circumstance values your services in a different way....possibly dealing in drugs, petty theft, fraud, which may create the greatest cost on society.

Anyway, my two cents.

 

umm BZ that doesn't seem so off point to me

 

you know that for many that sentence completely describes the American Dream

 

The core problem with Ibankers making bazillions is that they provide ZERO value to the world they live in.

Unlike trash collectors, teachers, engineers and other legacy occupations


Bankers didn't use to be so corrupt either. For those of us older bogeys many of those most guilty of outright theft came into 'financial services' once old time laws were changed to permit, neigh encourage, outright corruption through the use of new fangled 'financial products'. The harsh reality is that there is no such 'product' merely a scheme to defraud aided and abetted by the US gubberment.

There will be no one EVER arrested for the 2008 fraud induced economy collapse because Goldman Sachs/US Treasury (the same exact organization with numerous people having titles on both sides) was the major beneficiary of said theft. Sorry Iceland, your account was with the wrong brokerage firm.

I live in a nicer neighborhood and have two buddies on the street who are stockbrokers, both earning in the $500k range PLUS bonuses, and neither can define let alone defend Credit Default Swaps or Collateralized Debt Obligations. During poker a few years ago it was revealed that neither knew much at all about the toxic sides of these BS 'products'. Yet they live to defraud others on a daily basis despite these toxic "financial products" ruining entire economies. These fraudulent 'products' are still being pushed today because NO ONE is policing the banking industry. Those paid to police it openly ignore laws and coddle bankers because they get paid better that way.

Nothing will be done about it as long as Citizen's United permits DC to be bought and paid for each year. Thus Dodd Frank has exactly zero teeth to stop it.. which is how it obtained bipartisan support to pass.

The ONLY one in DC that I've found making ANY effort to stop this open theft is Elizabeth Warren and both the Democrats and the Republicans are actively engaged trying to thwart her every move.

So that the theft can continue.

 

NOT "for doing nothing" but for cheating people with lies, deceptive half truths and overly legal disclaimers which the banks use to continue defrauding at will.

No thanks. I'll stick to being an engineer please.

 

Heres the respect that BO has internationally
Can you imagine this happening before his feckless unconcerned policies came about?
And if you think this is a one off just youtube russians buzz US ship they've been doing it for years
Everyone knows what we will do
NOTHING and thats fucking embarrassing

 

They're doing this because the destroyer is in the Baltic doing exercises with Polish forces. They are sending a signal that they don't want us there.

Prior to a year or so ago, we had no forces in the Baltic region. Now we are forming military alliances with the Baltic States, and the Scandanavian states as a warning to Moscow not to even think about doing to them what they did in the Ukriane. They have prepositions arms, tanks, and transports, plus F-15s now and seriously considering NATO expansion.

So it's not about respect or disrespect, it's about staying out of my backyard.

 

Its about trying to start WW3 after intentionally not paying attention
This is the worst foreign policy in our history period

 

Not taking a dump on the military but there's a huge difference. The guy making $31,200 gross has to pay taxes, insurance, and health care out of that. In the end he's taking home maybe 20 grand. The sarge is getting free health care, insurance, and benefits/discounts from all angles. I'm not sure what the military tax situation is, but I live near Fort Bragg and military families are all around me, and they do quite well as far as living expenses. Most restaurants in the area, as well as car dealers, and just about everybody really, offer them some nice discounts. Add to that the retirement benefits for life (after 20 or 25 years) and it's a pretty sweet deal. Not begrudging them a dime, mind you. My next door neighbor recently retired (at age 45) and bought a cabin in the mountains. He's moving there in June and selling his house here. I'm still working (two jobs) at age 61 and I'm praying I'll be able to sell my home and retire at 66.

Bottom line, the military example is not a good one because you're just comparing wages. Benefits is on a whole different level.

 

You have a future as a caddie!

 

They are getting benefits paid for from payroll deduction.

Military gets free health care for themselves and their family. That adds up to lots of money saved.

 

not to mention one puts their life on the line when called upon
the other must produce a big mac

 

I hear all the 'life on the line' rhetoric and it's true, if you serve you have to go where they send you. The truth is that probably less than 10% of those who serve actually see 'combat' duty. It's higher here because Ft. Bragg houses the Rangers and the 82nd Airborne. Don't misunderstand me, I realize the sacrifices these people make, it's just not that high a percentage of them. And I know the benefits they receive are really incredible. I've lived around these people all of my life, I've seen them come and go. Believe me, the benefits they get by themselves are probably worth $15 and hour, and then they get paid too.

All I'm saying is $15.00 an hour vs. military pay is no comparison. I'll take the military pay every time.

(without having to put in the actual time, mind you. after all, I'm an entitled fuck.)

 

Well maybe soldiers should be paid more. Again, how society allocates where resources go, doesn't make it the right allocation.

I just think all working citizens need a fair shot to achieve that chance at a decent life.

Pro baseball players get millions and never get close to risking their lives. They play a game. Yet they get paid more than any military person.

Is that the right way to look at it?

 

I think its obscene what athletes make but its mega obscene what the owners rake in so...i would say entertainment isn't really a good measure
Is an actor worth 20 mil a movie?
They are if the movies can net half a bil
To me a having a fair shot includes having major effort, not just a hand out and a big mouth
If you are able bodied and capable you should contribute to society and be compensated
I dont eat much fast food but do you want to pay $15 bucks for a sandwich?
The margins are tighter than you think for the individual franchises that actually pay the employees
And w this economy I have to think the $1 menus are what most people are eating
How much margin is built into that when you consider all the insurance, work comp, taxes etc. etc.
That $15 costs a business closer to $25 when its all said and done
And what about when its slow?
Its going to automate 100% and now those jobs are lost for everyone
And the military...imo no way should a fast food employee be close but our history is treating those men and women like dirt