Discussion in 'Los Angeles DODGERS' started by southerndodgerfan, Mar 17, 2012.
Do those apply with waiver claims?
I would be surprised if AZ put a claim in for Lee. Maybe the Yankees, or the Rangers out of left field.
I don't see why they wouldn't apply. If the DBacks were 100% sure he wouldn't waive his no trade for AZ, then they could claim him to block LA from getting him.
I suppose that's true.
I highly doubt AZ claims him. Anything can change wih Lees mind, but no one can change 90 mil owed to lee which is something AZ can't afford
Yeah, to block them would not go well for them. At the end of the day, they get him and then what? They would do well, but they would have to eat a large portion of this contract. They can't afford 90 million dollars just to block us when we have the money to go out and get someone younger and (maybe) better in Grienke next year.
you never know, Kevin Towers is notorious for waiver wire pick-ups...
Yes we do and if worst comes to worst they dump him on us then guess what we are the fucking Dodgers and have fuck you money!!!!
It'd be huge.
Yes we should go after Lee. Lee hasnt been great this year but he is a proven ace and teaming him with CK? Wow! The money is a lot but thats what you pay for when you go out and get an ace caliber pitcher. He eats innings (Averaging 7 IP a start) and has been better since the beginning of July.
Arizona will not claim him because they cant afford him and the Rangers and Yankees have better records than we do so they wouldnt be able to claim them unless we pass.
All else fails Derek Lowe was dfa'd this morning.
Kershaw-Lee-Billingsley is a pretty damn good 1-2-3, that contract just makes my stomach hurt, but having Lee would do wonders for us down the stretch..
And yes, I would put Chad ahead of Capuano, and it's not even close in my opinion
The Dodgers Should Claim Cliff Lee
by Dave Cameron - August 2, 2012
While this kind of thing is expected, there’s still some news today from Jeff Passan of of Yahoo Sports.
@JeffPassanSource: Phillies have placed Cliff Lee on waivers. Executives expect him to clear Friday afternoon, be eligible for trade. 2 Aug 12
Most teams run nearly their entire rosters through waivers in August, just on the off chance that someone gets through and they can end up making a deal with a contender in a seller’s market. Probably every big name player in baseball is going to be put on waivers at some point in the next few weeks, and so Lee is no different in that regard.
He is somewhat different, though, in that his contract makes it likely that he’ll actually clear waivers, and a team putting in a claim would force the Phillies to make a pretty interesting decision.
Lee is due about $6 million over the remainder of the 2012 season, then is under contract for $25 million in each of the next three years. The contract gets a little sticky in 2016, as its currently a club option for $27.5 million with a $12.5 million buyout, but it becomes guaranteed if he’s not on the DL at the end of the 2015 season and threw either 200 innings in 2015 or 400 combined in 2014 and 2015. Given that, an acquiring team would probably need to treat that final year as essentially guaranteed as well, and treat Lee like he’s owed about $110 million over the next 4 1/2 seasons. That’s a lot of money for anyone, much less a pitcher who is a month away from his 34th birthday.
At that price, most teams in baseball are probably going to take a pass on putting in a claim. The Dodgers, however, should take the gamble and put the ball in the Phillies court.
The Dodgers new ownership has already flexed significant financial muscle since taking over for Frank McCourt in the spring. They signed Andre Ethier to a five year, $85 million contract that was probably a bit of an overpay, took on all of the ~$36 million still owed to Hanley Ramirez through 2014, and signed 21-year-old Cuban outfielder Yasiel Puig to a $42 million contract that was considered to be a wild overpay by those who follow the international market closely.
While the Dodgers might not have unlimited resources, the new ownership group clearly intends to make the organization of the big spenders in baseball, taking full advantage of their television market to establish something like Yankees West. If the Dodgers run out an opening day payroll of $175 million next year, I don’t think anyone would be too terribly surprised.
Based on the contracts currently on the books, the Dodgers have $135 million already allocated to players under team control for 2013, while A.J. Ellis is their only significant arbitration eligible player. So, if their payroll target was $175 million (which, keep in mind, is a number I pulled out of thin air, and may not actually represent their budget), that would leave them about $35 million to spend to fill out the roster, meaning they could take Cliff Lee’s contract and still have enough left to buy a new first baseman. While Lee’s contract would be a budget buster for most organizations, it might not prevent the Dodgers from making further upgrades in other areas as well.
And, to be honest, there’s probably not a better use of that money available in free agency this winter. Before the season started, the assumption was that the Dodgers would make a huge push for either Cole Hamels or Joey Votto — or both — but they have since re-signed with their clubs, eliminating them from possible consideration. That leaves the big name targets this winter as Josh Hamilton, Melky Cabrera, B.J. Upton, Shane Victorino, Mike Napoli, Nick Swisher, Anibal Sanchez, Edwin Jackson, and potentially Zack Greinke, if he doesn’t re-sign with the Angels first. There’s certainly some nice players in there, but besides Greinke and Hamilton, no one in that group has the potential impact that Lee would have, and both of those guys come with their own set of risks as well.
And, of course, there’s also the fact that signing a free agent this winter does nothing to help you win in 2012. Yes, if you think you could get Greinke for something close to that same $110 million you’d be committing to Lee, then you might prefer the younger pitcher, but present value has to be a factor as well, and the contending Dodgers are in the sweet spot where every marginal upgrade represents a significant return.
The upgrade would over Stephen Fife — who has racked up a whopping seven strikeouts in three starts since being recalled from Triple-A — would likely add about +1.5 wins to the Dodgers regular season total, and Lee would represent a substantial upgrade to their potential playoff rotation as well. Going from second place finisher to NL West champions could return as much as $30 to $40 million in additional revenues if the Dodgers made a World Series run. Even a first round playoff victory probably nets the team an additional $5 to $10 million in revenue from future ticket sales and the attendance boost that goes with generating excitement in the fan base.
So, while Lee’s marginal cost is probably a bit higher than what he’d sign for as a free agent this winter, that’s not really the appropriate comparison, because it ignores the actual value that Lee could bring to the Dodgers before we get to the off-season. Given the Dodgers spot on the playoff bubble, they should be valuing each additional win added very highly, and should probably see the remainder of Lee’s 2012 performance as worth at least $10 million, so the future value proposition is more along the lines of 4/100 than 4/110.
Is 4/100 a gross overpay for Lee for a team with massive revenues? I don’t think so. He probably won’t be worth that money, and it could even be pretty ugly by the last year of the deal, but Lee’s still an excellent pitcher right now and projects to remain one for the next several years. Given the significant difference he could make to the Dodgers organization right now and the mediocre alternatives that they’ll have to consider overpaying this winter, claiming Lee on waivers is a risk the Dodgers should take.
Maybe the Phillies won’t let him go for nothing, but they should at least dare Ruben Amaro to have to make that call.
I'm not expecting it to happen, but this would be the ultimate way for ownership to say "we don't give a fuck what it costs, we wanna win."
I have mixed emotions on Lee. He is way fucking expensive and hit a lull recently due to injury. But, his last start was pretty damn good. He would be great for us in a postseason run. His price takes us out of the running for more than one premier FA. However, Greinke is pretty much the only real ACE out there in the coming FA class. Also, we lose Victorino after this season and have another hole to fill. I have no idea on this one. My heart wants Lee just to have Lee but I have to wonder if he will decline and we will be on the hook for so much money that we cannot afford FA.
Jerry Sands is on a tear
I know, I know. ABQ
but he's not doing terrible on the road like he was last year. more homers on the road, .268/.341/.495
he's a better option than Rivera and Loney IMO because he at least can take a walk. but i know it won't happen
last year, 61 games and had 25 walks. Loney had 42 walks in 158 games
this year Loney has 22 walks and Rivera 13
power is probably even all things considered, but Sands has upside still(dont worry, im not acting like he'll be even a very good player, just think he's better than what we have. Hit him 7th and AJ 6th)
Sands is the fucking man! Call his ass up and cut those sacks of shit named Rivera and Loney.
concerns with lee: last year is all but guaranteed at 27 mil, his war has dropped of a ton from around 6 to 2.
then there is the Phillies ability to always just back out if they want.
I dint know if we will get an impact player to help from the September call ups, that sucks too
I'm totally in on Lee...if he'll accept it. I'll trade Lee for Lee...fuck it, I want him. It's him or Zack Greinke and Zack can't help us now and there's no gurantee we get him anyway. Go for it!
Cliff Lee does not like black people.
Separate names with a comma.